5 10 139 https://www.wrvuhistory.org/files/original/3643357ce3628f4852a942ac782d17ea.jpg d34ca77f6acadc1f31681a21d134093c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource WRVU-FM, Vanderbilt University Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Description An account of the resource Joe Strummer of The Clash @ WRVU 1984 Title A name given to the resource Joe Strummer at WRVU with caption Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 1984 Joe Strummer (artist) https://www.wrvuhistory.org/files/original/8a7fa7b2b474746df3f388e37525dc36.mp4 36ef5ee94b9925d12fa60165de071290 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource WRVU-FM, Vanderbilt University Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Frank Lowe interview by John Rogers, 2002 Description An account of the resource John Rogers interviews musician Frank Lowe, WRVU Nashville, 2002. This broadcast was re-aired on Facebook Live in May 2020. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2002 https://www.wrvuhistory.org/files/original/c3591088dc30d81028265d0844d5f9e5.mp4 4288cef46dfe03598859501f02fe30ed Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource WRVU-FM, Vanderbilt University Radio Show Description of a radio show hosted on WRVU. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource William Parker interview by John Rogers, Chris Davis, and Patrick Dolan, October 2001 Subject The topic of the resource John Rogers, Chris Davis, and Patrick Dolan interview musician William Parker, October 2001 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource October 2001 Description An account of the resource John Rogers, Chris Davis, and Patrick Dolan interview musician William Parker, October 2001. This broadcast was re-aired on Facebook Live in May 2020. https://www.wrvuhistory.org/files/original/22b71770f57610f5dd3d1d35c4769473.mp3 4805cc7014582000bf9f49aefc3ecd17 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource WXPL-FM, Fitchburg State University Subject The topic of the resource WXLP-FM 91.3 at Fitchburg State University, Fitchburg, MA Description An account of the resource Collected artifacts and oral histories with alumni of the station. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Katherine Jewell Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Katherine Jewell Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Chris Cook Location The location of the interview Remotely via riverside.fm Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Transcript generated by AI through riverside.fm. Will need correction. Kate Jewell (00:00.782) All right, so I'll do the official like oral history intro. It's July 17th, 2024. I'm Catherine Jewell. am in Belmont, Massachusetts interviewing Chris Cook for a project on WXPL's history, which may potentially also become a podcast. And then would you go ahead, introduce yourself and where you are and why you're here? Chris (00:26.565) I am so used to introducing myself officially as a professor. No, I am Chris Cook. I'm actually in Latrobe, Pennsylvania, where I live now. And I was at Fitchburg State between 1989 and 1993. That's where I did my undergrad work and I was a history major. there was not. Kate Jewell (00:48.654) Perfect. There was no political science at the time. Chris (00:53.742) I'm minored in political science. Kate Jewell (00:56.806) I don't know, but now we have a robust political science major. So I have done a lot of oral histories for the book project, but because of COVID and all of the various things that go along with writing a book, I was never able to dive into my own institution's radio station very deeply, just knowing that I would always dedicate some special attention to it. And Chris (01:00.642) Yes. Kate Jewell (01:25.356) So for these oral histories, I'm going to follow sort of the general pattern that I used for those oral histories. But the difference being that I am going to house these in an archive at the university's archive and also potentially produce a podcast for the university out of them. So they have a little more officialness, I guess, than the other oral histories. But I'm still going to stick to my kind of vague topic structure. Because mostly I'm interested in, you know, hearing about your experiences, your reflections, you know, kind of whatever comes up and I'll try to kind of hit the main things that I try to hit with everybody thematically, but I don't do it any kind of order. But the way that I start with everybody is to just ask you to tell me a little bit about, you know, how you got to Fitchburg State and how you got to radio. Chris (02:21.057) You know, it's, I actually tell the story to my students, how I got to Fitchburg State. I don't mind saying this. I bombed my SATs. I got a combined score of an 890. I got the thanks for playing score in math. And I was sitting down and I'm from Braintree. I'm from the South Shore. You know, I'm from the last stop on the Red Line. And I was so quintessentially a Boston kid that I'd never even been like, I'd been to Worcester a few times, but I wouldn't know where Fitchburg was if my life depended on it. And I, I apologize to Fitchburg for that. But so I was trying to figure out where to send my SAT scores to. You get five schools. And so I saw Fitchburg state and I was like, I asked my mom and I said, if I would go there, would I live there or do I commute? And she's like, you'd live Like, OK, I'll send that off. and and Loam, I got I never went to the school and ever visited it. I got accepted. They accepted my I had some AP classes actually that I took for history. They accepted and. The first day I actually went to that campus was, think the day after the Tiananmen Square massacre. So it's June of 1989 and they were registering for classes and I remember walking around the campus the first time I'd ever been out And I saw a WXPL sticker, you know, illegally stuck somewhere. I'm thinking that that's what I want to join. I knew immediately that once I got back to that campus in the fall that I was going to join WXPL. I did, you know, it's one of the first things I did. Kate Jewell (04:07.23) Did you know about college radio? Did it have a sort of presence in your mind? Like what was kind of your musical world Chris (04:13.934) You know, I loved music, but I was, you know, no, didn't know anything about college radio. And unlike probably a lot of some of the people that you're going to talk to, I did not really listen to WFNX. Right. I was not one of like, you know, and so I had friends that listen to alternative music. And I do, you know, I love Dariem and I, you know, there's definitely a Smiths and, know, that stuff, but I was more a metalhead. I was more into metal and a lot of classic rock, you know. And in fact, one of the first people I met, right, is Chuck Ferra. And we bonded over the band Love, you know, with Arthur Lee and King Crimson, right. And in fact, because we had both been listening to that band in high school. And so it's one of the first things. And Mark Mark Fields and Mike Barones metal. You know what saying? In fact, that's how really I was introduced in some ways. I was more into, I was hanging out with them, you know, and they're just, you know, you know, the walking encyclopedia of metal. that's kind of how I got introduced to that. And it's 1989. And I think one of the things that I'm always amazed about Chris (05:42.926) the older students that were there. Think about it. If you're a senior in 1989, were like, you came to college in 1985, right? And so they were imbued with that older sense of college radio. by the time I left in 1993, mean, like the grunge explosion had happened, right? I I mean, in some ways, I think the time period I was there that music, and even college radio, went through just a transformative stage, you know, and just a huge, you know, change. But I'm glad I was there. And I said, I think one of the. One of the beautiful things about being there was that I just soaked it all in. just I just, you know, I was one of those people like, tell me what you love, like play me the songs that you like and and, know, like I still love metal. And I still, know, but like, you my musical taste expanded so broadly because I was talking to all these people and doing all these Kate Jewell (06:51.224) So what was the station's profile when you got there? How was it structured? What was programming like? What were you looking to get involved in? What drew you first? Chris (07:05.885) Um, yeah, it's, it's, it actually was, I think it was, it was, it was going through a generational change when I got there. So, I mean, I ended up the music director my freshman year. So by 1990, I was, I was the music director and I remained music director up until my senior year and I was the station manager. Um, Chris (07:27.758) There are politics, you know, it's saying it. Sometimes I'm kind of glad I actually never lived with a lot of XPL. I never lived with the XPL people. And I love them dearly. You know, like I think they are amazing people, but they all live together. I think they are all. But I think the structure. was loose. It was it was a club. mean, you know, I'm saying I remember I think it was I'm someone once asked described to me what it was like running WXP and it was like herding cats like like it is hard in an all volunteer club to get people to do things. You know, and so the momentum is that people are there because of music, right? If people are gonna show up to their show, it's because they wanna play the music, right? And if people are gonna do anything, it's because they're dedicated to their friends and music, right? And otherwise, you know, it was really hard to, you know, so it ended up being a small group of people, I think, that really were driving that whole thing. know, Craig Albano, who I hopefully you get a chance to talk to, you know. Kate Jewell (08:48.47) I so. think somebody has text messaged me. Chris (08:52.646) OK. You know, you know, and and rock is a little rock was Mike Pangea was a bit older than me, too. So I mean, like he that's when I think about like, you know, You know, the REM and the, know, like a lot of the American indie stuff, you know, from the 80s, you know. And so, yeah, I mean, it was kind of it got to I mean, in some ways, as a a a pitch, Brooks, a small school. And was kind of clickish. mean, my roommate, my sophomore year ended up running the daily, the student newspaper. And we used to, you so I mean like, know, you know, you know everyone, right? And so we were kind of like the, in fact, actually in one of the yearbooks, there's a picture of WXPL, but there's no description of us. And that is why, the reason why is because I wrote a joke description. Kate Jewell (09:31.79) Mm -hmm. Chris (09:49.202) and he refused to publish it. And so there's just nothing. They didn't even give me a chance to rewrite it to something more serious. And so there's just a picture of all of us sitting there. So I Kate Jewell (10:00.856) So how did this experience fit in with your other, sorry, I'm changing my air conditioning because heat wave. So how did doing WXPL fit in with your college life, like your academic life? Were there connections? Did you see connections at the time or were they just wholly separate? Chris (10:24.088) You know, I, my, well, I mean, like now that I am a college professor, so I can actually really talk to you about that. I actually thought about that, really thought about this. They weren't connected in a lot of ways. And so. I mean, like I had a history friend, Dean Ruhuka, who sadly passed away. He was like my history peer and for academics. Kate Jewell (10:30.776) you Chris (10:52.994) You know, he was not involved in the radio station, you know, but he was like my history friend. And in some ways he inspired me to be a better student. WXPL, God bless its soul, is the reason why I up skipping classes. know, in some ways it's attracted in a lot of ways from my academic work. However, it is also one of the reasons I ended up in political science, right? Kate Jewell (11:06.86) You Chris (11:20.642) My senior year, was interning at a law office in downtown Fitchburg and my friend John Caples, I would listen to the radio station and he was playing Phil Oakes and Phil Oakes, the folk singer. And it just floored me and I called him up and I was like, who is this? didn't, didn't. And like, know, and see I have a Phil Oakes poster right there, right? Like, that's very political. And Kate Jewell (11:45.646) Good Chris (11:49.282) there were political bands like Consolidated or Public Enemy, punk music, like Bad Religion, that really resonated with me. And so that aspect, I think, is one of the reasons I ended up in political science. Kate Jewell (12:10.36) interesting. What was you considered the station's musical profile when you arrived? Chris (12:10.764) Yeah. Chris (12:18.765) Um, well, that was actually kind of a grab bag. think, I think if you really, hopefully they told you about Ken Spalding, which is probably one of the reasons why the new kids, I think that might be the reason that new kids in the block even mentioned us is that he actually literally did, I think a pop show. Like he did a top 40 pop show and you'd come in with like a stack of 45s, like a seven inches and just play like just pop music. which is funny because it's like when you think about college radio, that was not, so when I got there, I mean, like, I think it was more kind of free flowing, right? Cause you're, it's a reflection of who's there. One of the things that we tried not to do is play like classic rock, right? And that, you know, when I was, I think as the music director, Kate Jewell (13:01.442) Thank you. Chris (13:08.198) and talking to people on what we call programs committee, program director, the station manager, is that we, you can play classic rock. mean, it's not like no one ever played Jethro Tull, but I mean, there wasn't going to be an emphasis on that because you could get that somewhere else. We brought in, I forget their names now, but we had some local high schoolers maybe. Kate Jewell (13:27.821) Mm Chris (13:37.954) come in and do like the urban hip hop show. And so we were, you know, I think, but by the 90s, I would say that we were dedicated to, you know, I don't think it had one identity, right? You could go in and listen to industrial music on one day and there was punk music, there was the metal show and Fields and Baroness will tell you their metal show was respected. They knew a lot of people in the industry and they were well respected. So we had the metal covered. Yeah, we had it all. So I think we were pretty, we had a lot of variety when it came to alternative Kate Jewell (14:22.098) So walk me through what a show of yours might've sounded like. What were you aiming to do on the radio? Chris (14:29.294) Oh, you know, I was not the world's greatest DJ. No. So I think I think by like 1989, I convinced myself that I'm going to start every show with Transmission by Joy Division. Right. You know, I that was going to be some catchy intro song. But the. I was more of the. Whatever I'm listening to at the moment, free flowing thing, so I mean, like I did not. It's funny, because years later, you know. If you ever listen to WFMU out in New York. I love that nation. I don't think I'm that's a lot of work. Those those DJs put in a lot of work and. Kate Jewell (15:03.352) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Kate Jewell (15:11.798) You can't shazam things that come off of WFMU. They will not come up. Chris (15:15.286) Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so like there like I hate saying this, but I mean, like, you know, I was more like, I'm in this mood today, so I'm just going to play this. And my moods can change, you know, if as I said earlier, like, know, like if you're walking into like, you know, I said one of the beautiful things I think about college radio everyone's there bringing their musical taste with them and you're listening to music and everyone's like, you know, sharing and doing that. And I think, you so my radio show was all over the map. You know what saying? Like, you know, like I actually still like a lot of early nineties hip hop. I still like, you know, you know, I mean, I think I try to think I think I had some jazz phase where I think where I went off and like bought a bunch of John Coltrane and Miles Davis albums or something like that, you know, like so it very that would be me. But like I think, you know, to go the big old thrash show, that was the name of their metal show. you know, they put a lot of work into it, you know, and they thought about it and they had new they had a good combination of new releases, good combination of, you the classics, deep cuts off classics, and they were knowledgeable. And they could bring a lot of knowledge and information to that. think at different points, we've had industrial shows, which is not the same thing as goth. Somehow people seem to confuse those two things. once again, there were people that knew their stuff. And so I Kate Jewell (16:38.936) Mm -hmm. Chris (17:02.838) I was more like, how would you use the word? I'm gonna say dilettante. But I mean, I would be like, I'm going to go off now like a butterfly and go listen to this now. But we had a lot of DJs, knew what they were doing. Kate Jewell (17:16.32) Mm -hmm. So how did the station fit in on campus or did it? Chris (17:22.35) It did. I don't think anyone listened to us on campus. I'll tell you, look, my story, and this is, I got my PhD at UC Santa Barbara, and one day I'm walking through a park in Santa Barbara, California, and there's a hardcore punk band playing. And I stop, and it's like, this is strange. And within minutes they say, we're from Boston. And I'm like, I gotta listen, I gotta, you know, You're not from Boston, are you? Right. You're not originally from Boston. OK. Well, we Boston people are very loyal to each other. You know what saying? Right. And so I will always support Boston. Right. I mean, so like I stop and it's the dropkick Murphy's. And this is like early on, this is like super in the 90s at some point. And. I talked to them afterwards, right. And I had met the drummer. I forget his Kate Jewell (17:54.924) Me? I'm from Vermont. Sort of. Chris (18:22.286) at WXPL. He had won a prize. And he was young. He was a kid. And he had come to the station to pick up that prize. And I was there, I guess. And I talked to him. Yeah. And so there were, are one of the things, you always joke about no one listening to us, you know. Kate Jewell (18:38.704) gosh, and he was at college radio, it like this cool thing that like, we were doing. Chris (18:51.862) And I, you know, trust me, I think my freshman year story was that the college student government was thinking about their, what are these to call it? Mayday or spring fling or Spree Day. That was Spree Day. And so we had a choice. We could bring the Red Hot Chili Peppers to campus or we ended up with the John Cafferty and the Beaver Brown Kate Jewell (19:07.406) Breathe in. Chris (19:20.255) And we ended up with the John Cafferty and the Beaver Brown band. And I think that's the year they rioted. And so, but because no one, none of the of the rest of the camp, right. None of the other students would know who Hot Chili Peppers were if their life depended on it. You know, and that's. Yeah. And so, you know, we didn't really have. Yeah, I don't. We all were part of a college community and Kate Jewell (19:35.) Mm -hmm. they were a college radio band. That's how they came up there. Chris (19:48.802) As I said, I had friends doing things all the time, I think the radio station kids were the weirdos, or the radio station, and we all hung out, people all hung out with each other too. So it's like, Kate Jewell (20:01.774) to your own little community. Chris (20:02.306) I think we had some sports shows. think we used to, one connection is I think, and I was all for it. I remember being the station manager, was like recording the hockey games at the Wallace Civic Center. And I really thought that was a good thing for us for a lot of reasons. And I think it was good for students even years later now being on the other side of of academics about getting students to, if you want to be in broadcasting, you know what saying? Like that's good. Kate Jewell (20:12.45) Mm -hmm. Kate Jewell (20:29.388) Thank you. Chris (20:31.16) good experience to do. Kate Jewell (20:33.974) Yeah, I'm curious as a college professor now how you see the benefits of doing college radio, just kind of broadly speaking. Chris (20:42.478) I'll tell you why. I've had this discussion. I'm struggling as a faculty advisor. And one of the reasons why is that my experience at WXPL was I don't want any adults around. I don't want the grownups to come, you know, and we switched actually. We moved from the library to the basement of Thompson Hall when I was And, you know, we had like the run of the building at night. You know what saying? And, and so I didn't want faculty hanging around. didn't want, what saying? And, know, the crone. And it's funny because I think a difference today is a lot of student groups want more guidance and they want, they, they want me to be around, you know, and at some point, like I, I've been at different times, an advisor Kate Jewell (21:15.021) you. Kate Jewell (21:34.967) Okay. Chris (21:39.224) campus Democrats and campus Republicans. And for both of them, like, I don't want to go to your things. I'm not showing up to your events. I'm not, saying like, you know, my philosophy is it's your club. It's your club. You decide, you decide where you want to do things. You make the priorities and I'm going to sign off on it. Yeah, exactly. Kate Jewell (21:47.416) Yeah. Kate Jewell (21:53.176) Mm Kate Jewell (21:59.98) make it happen. Chris (22:03.808) If I don't know about it, I don't care. You if I don't, do something illegal and I don't ever find out, no one finds out, then we're all go okay. You know what saying? But like they, I don't think they really like that. I don't think modern students really want that. And we had problems actually getting advisors actually. You know, I'm trying to think of, I forget even who I was our academic advisor and I can't remember, you know, think George Borer at one time said he was and then wasn't and didn't want to do it. And so I preemptively was told by a faculty member, don't ask me to be the advisor to that club. I'm like, I didn't think I was going ask you. So yeah, we had problems of that nature. Yeah. Yeah. Kate Jewell (22:52.375) Yeah, I can understand that. It's a perennial problem in many ways. So what was it like being music director? What did you have to do? What was the process like? What were the responsibilities? Chris (23:04.386) Well, I mean, I loved it, you know, and at one point in my life, I really contemplated being, you know, in the music industry, you know, seriously, you know, like to be, you know, my goal would be I want to be an A &R guy, you know, of course, now like that world's gone. you know, but I mean, I know. But we're still it the early 90s. So you could pretend it was going to stay that way. And the You know, I listened to all the new music that came in, you know, and we used to, well, we used to have, I think it was breaking down anyway on its own, but there was like a rotation box, right? Of like, try to play these albums more each hour, try to, saying, and it was like, kind of like, it was a box right in front of the, you know, the DJs, the booth, you know, with the turntables and the CD players. And it's like, this is what you want to do. And so, you know, I think it, you know, I called up record companies and I dealt with label reps all the time. And they're calling me sometimes, I know 110 watt station in central Massachusetts. But, you know, I remember like the guy from Sony, like he really wanted me to play Pearl Jam. And I remember this discussion of like, well, we don't really We're not digging Pearl Jam. It's not that there's anything wrong with Pearl Jam, we're just not really digging it here. And he's like, well, don't you guys like Mother of Love Bone? I'm like, no, we didn't really like Mother of Bone. But I mean, so like, you know, it was. I was on the phones, you know, at each part of each week trying, you know, people were contacting me. I'm contacting them. I get a lot of albums, a lot of local bands that want to get played. And it does, you know, you know, come with, you know, certain well perks. Right. I mean, like is one of the things Chris (25:16.834) being the music director was well we want you to like this band so they're coming to town here's some free tickets you know and I think that might have caused some people to get upset every once in a while. I tried to pass. And I was a recipient a lot because Mike and Mark were always able to get free tickets to metal shows. I it was like, I don't think I paid for a metal concert for like four years. And they were good at what they did. You know saying? And you I think I went to see Jane's Addiction for free at the Orpheum. Kate Jewell (26:01.026) Mm -hmm. Chris (26:05.166) And so there was, mean, well, I mean, you've studied, you know college radio, you were in it and you studied it professionally as an academic. There is the gravy train aspect to it. And it's, you know, you can get sucked in, you know, by Kate Jewell (26:27.074) Yeah. Well, there's a real tension between these non -commercial stations associated with the educational project of universities, which, you know, is not supposed to have a market function. But a lot of people there are, you know, trying to build their careers. They're trying to gain professional experience. And then the music industry Chris (26:52.031) Absolutely. Kate Jewell (26:56.18) itself at a certain point realizes that there's all this value and free labor, right? You were not getting paid to do this. Chris (27:02.486) Yeah. No, I know. And no, it's, it's, it's, you know, it's funny too, because like, I You know, I'm 53, right? So like my understanding of college radio today, if I went off to run a college radio station, it would look completely different. It would look more like NPR, right? No, but I mean, it would... And the other thing is that we're literally like a state college 60 miles west of Boston, and we're all a bunch of like suburban white kids, mostly, right? That are all like herding around certain kinds of things, Kate Jewell (27:22.094) Mm -hmm. Right. Chris (27:43.522) You know, and so I think, you know, which is why, you know, we did not have a lot of hip hop shows, you know, and it's it's it's in we did. But I remember, I said, one of our more popular shows, I said, was these two local local kids would come in on a Friday night and, know, and just play, you know, they bring their own stuff, right. And play stuff. And I think people listen to that. I think people listen to them. Kate Jewell (28:11.043) Yeah. Chris (28:11.182) But the, you know, basically where I'm going with that is like we're 20 year old kids, you know, and 20 year old kids, I mean, like, we can be cutting edge on a lot of things, but not everything, you know, and that's about the educational aspect of like radio, right? It gets hard because like, you know, it's hard not to get sucked You know, and as I said, things change so dramatically that I think freshmen coming into college in 1993 and 1994 are now primed to one. In fact, alternative radio became mainstream radio and it almost. Like, I mean, know, XPL, I mean, I was gone, but I mean, XPL might've lost the plot. Cause like at some point, if your identity is so wrapped up into like non -mainstream radio, like I had this discussion with a professor once and he's younger than me and... He's like, R .E sucks. They're adult contemporary music, you know? And I'm like, no, don't ever say that. Like they're a cutting edge band. You know what saying? Like they revolutionize music. You know what saying? But what would he know? He's younger, right? Kate Jewell (29:26.104) Right. Well, speaking of REM, I was told a story about when the Out of Time album showed up at the station and somebody carted it up. And they thought that you might have been the music director or station manager at this point. And I don't know if you remember this, but they're like, I got in trouble because Chris was listening and the album was locked up in a cabinet. Chris (29:54.446) And they took the screws off. Did they take the screws off the cabinet? can't remember that. think, so one of the tensions of like, I remember driving back from Boston with a station member and someone on our, some of the radio station was like playing Led Zeppelin. Kate Jewell (29:56.898) They took the skirt. Chris (30:19.246) And we joked that WXBEL was going to be the recipient of the September award, the best September, and then would be October next month. I think because by then REM had become this giant band. And I was trying to say, no, let's listen to something else. Let's do something else. As I said earlier, it's about herding cats. We are young, you know what saying? Kate Jewell (30:51.342) So it wasn't that the transgression, all right, I'm digging into this now. So it wasn't that the transgression was that you weren't supposed to play the album yet, but it was that you were kind of like as music director saying like, I mean, that single, I mean, that was going straight to MTV, right? If it was out of time and losing my religion. mean, that was going and getting the mainstream coverage. And you as music director were saying, Our work here is done. That's why we don't need to be playing this. Chris (31:22.892) Yes. Yeah. yeah. Yeah, no, and it's in the defense of the people that could have done that. My rock is he is truly a diehard RRM fan. He really is. And he's just going to listen to RRM. And yeah, but yeah, that's that's where I was going. was like, we were not going to play something that's playing on WBCN every other song. You know, Kate Jewell (31:55.341) Mm -hmm. Chris (31:56.48) I then might even be on ZLX by then, I'm saying. like and so we were just going to like not do that. And that was. That I mean, and I think about on my life, I reflect back on that, that's we fall under that as the that that wasn't going to work. There are limitations to what being a music director actually is, you know. So. Kate Jewell (32:21.332) interesting. you were music directing, if we could turn it into a verb, with a certain philosophy for the station, it sounds Chris (32:30.646) Yeah. yeah, no, I wanted to I I did believe and I think there might even, you know. I have written about it somewhere. I mean, I don't even at the time, but like, you know, I did believe in the mission of college radio being that we should be indie, right? That we should be playing things that people don't play. Look, and I mean, I've got like a Neil Young thing right behind me. I'm not like, you know what saying? I'm not pretending that I'm like some, you know, on some mountain top somewhere, you know, like, and I only listen to like, you know, like, you know. And couple of once in while, I'd run into like, John Caples joined, he transferred to Fitchburg as a junior, senior. He knew a lot of obscure stuff. like, some point it was like, what do you even, where are you? Like, where do you find this stuff? Chris (33:37.558) No, but I mean, like, I mean, and that's the tension because like, you know, it's, is a student run organization and, we didn't foresee those bands that for some of my, some of the radio station members had been integral to their high school experience of being different, of being alternative, right? To become smash successes, right? Where the same kids, dare I say that we made fun are now listening to that too, and they're still not gonna listen to our radio station. And it would be wrong of me to suggest that like, well, you know, I mean, and Mike and Mark always did a good job. You did not hear Metallica on the Big O Thrasher show. But I mean, it'd be ridiculous to think that that was possible for a lot of like, you Kate Jewell (34:12.056) Right. Chris (34:34.262) I think the argument was that, example, if you're going to play... older rock music you want to find even more obscure rock music, you know what saying? Or you're not going to play, know, heaven forbid if you play Led Zeppelin, you're not going to play Stairway to Heaven, right? You're going to find something off the Presence album or something like that. You want to like do something always. So it's and look, I mean, I think about it now and I'm like, man, what about like, who's listening to us? You know what saying? But I was reporting, but here's the thing. I was on the phone with people telling people that we were doing X, Y and Z. Kate Jewell (35:10.03) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Chris (35:11.694) Like I'm reporting to CMJ and my name is still there floating around like on the internets, right? mean, just like, and I am saying that, you I think one of the most inspirational shows I ever went to, I was with Mike Baronis and we went to the CMJ conference in 1991 and I saw a lot of metal shows. It was kind of hanging out with him, but it was, and I'll tell you this. the stereotypes of people. Metal kids are the nicest kids. They are. They're like, I like Slayer, you like Slayer, let's like Slayer together. You know what saying? Indie rock kids suck, right? And it became an argument about who's listening to who first, you know what I'm saying? And you weren't doing this, know? But I hung out a lot of the, I to lot of metal shows, but one of the things that we went to was to see Hellman. Kate Jewell (35:49.678) True. Kate Jewell (35:53.314) Be friends. Kate Jewell (36:02.808) Yeah. Chris (36:10.67) And it was in Greenwich Village in 1991, November of 1991. It was the Cow's Tar. It was an amphetamine reptile record showcase. And what I heard was that Helmet was signed to a major label that night. That's the gig that landed Helmet onto Interscope. mean, dude, I was just blown away. Kate Jewell (36:30.934) Okay. Chris (36:36.856) I mean, I was blown away by all the bands. was blown away by Hellman, was blown away by the cows, you know what saying? And like, I'd never experienced any of that stuff before. And I just went out and this was not at the radio station. You could not get this at the radio station. I went out and bought my own damn, Infetamine Reptile Records stuff, you know I'm saying? And I went out and had that catalog of things. And there are no free concerts. You had to go, saying? Cause you know, the AmRep people were, if you could get ahold of them, were ornery. I'm saying and like, you know, and things like that. So I mean, and I remember thinking like that's like that's, know, I have to keep one step ahead. You know, I'm saying like there's always new music, new music. There's always new music and that we can't spend our life listening to old music. You know, like we can't play our favorite songs. All four years were at the radio station, you know, I'm saying we've got to like keep pushing ourselves. You Kate Jewell (37:37.83) Do you think that ethos was coming from the world of college radio and the culture that it developed across these stations? Or was there something about it being a college station and at a university with an educational Chris (37:54.316) Well, I think you read the whims, whoever shows up to your college radio station, right? And that's going to be different across the country. But the ethos, I think, you know, and you are getting exploited, the free labor aspect and things like that. But you're at a point in your life and you have all the time in the world. Right. And, you know, and you are young. Kate Jewell (38:01.358) Thank you. Chris (38:23.24) and you are talking to people and you're just, people are sharing things. And I think that was a very fertile time period. think, I'm kind of glad I never left college because, know, even in grad school, I'm like, you you constantly run into undergrads that are bringing in new bands that you've never heard of or, or you. didn't really give it a try or whatever, you know, and it's retroactive too, because when I got to the radio station, you know, think Mark, did you, hopefully you can talk to Mark Small. And Mark Small was the, yeah, Mark Small was the, was the music director before me. And he, he was in a band which called Cancerous Growth, which the album was, he wasn't an original member of the band, but he was in one of the later lineups. He pulled out an album once and he was in the back cover. Kate Jewell (38:58.38) Yes, I have his number. Chris (39:17.966) I was like, like you're 18 years old and you're like, oh my God, that's just amazing. And, and I, I don't know. I saw my experience in college as this is wonderful. Like talk to me. You know I'm saying? you know, tell me why you like Husker do, right? Show me, you know what saying? And show me why you like this and what you do with this. And I was able to see things differently. Maybe I didn't like something on the first time. And there is another element of students that were indirectly connected to the XPL people. So there is a group of like, you not everyone that listened to Fugazi is gonna be at WXPL. So the first time I heard Fugazi was at a keg party on North Street, right? And it's got a big chunk of WXL people there. They're not all WXL people there. And some kid in his room was playing, you know, waiting room. And it's like 1990. And I'm like, damn, this is great. You know, like, I remember at that same house, we watched the Sinead O 'Connor on Saturday Night Live. Like they stopped the party to watch her, right? Because everyone was into her. And she ripped up the pope and there was, trust me, in the world of Irish Catholic Boston, there was shock. Not saying anyone booed or canceled her, but like there was kind of like the, it's kind of like, Which I discovered in California, and I lived there for 10 years, they never showed that. That was not on the West Coast broadcast. They had edited it out. Kate Jewell (40:42.158) Amazing. Kate Jewell (40:46.53) Ooh, not supposed to do that. Kate Jewell (40:57.424) because it was late. Chris (41:01.176) I'm like, no, I was there. I mean, I was there. I mean, I watched it. Kate Jewell (41:06.318) on Saturday night. That's amazing though. I mean, what was Fitchburg, what was Fitchburg State like when you were there? Like what was, like do you have like classes that stand out? Like what was, what was being a student Chris (41:21.634) I have the nostalgic fondest memories of Fitchburg and I do because it is, you know, it was, you know, as a lot of people do about their youth, you know, I was, it's, it's 1989, you know, the world is changing. I actually tell my students this, the Berlin Wall came down my first semester of my freshman year. I'm sure I have classmates that still don't know that happened. I'm sure there's still people that didn't even know that even occurred. I even took a class on the Soviet press. I took a class on the Soviet media when I was at Fitchburg. Yeah, and then I think the Soviet Union collapsed like the next month or so. By the end of the year, the Soviet Union was gone. But no, think for Fitchburg, was the right place for me to be at the right time. And from suburban Boston, Kate Jewell (41:50.991) You Chris (42:20.166) And it was my first real experience being away from home, being away from, know, and it was also very different, right? It's, you know, it's funny too, because like Fitchburg's only like an hour, I commute an hour to work and like that's what I mean. Like, but I'm out in the West, you know, but the, I know, but I mean, like, and I, you know, I, as I said, it was a place that allowed Kate Jewell (42:36.972) Central Massachusetts. Chris (42:49.336) to grow up and it allowed me, know, I, I said, I've got nothing negative to say about anyone at WXPL. I think they're, you know what saying? Like I'm so happy I knew them and they enriched my life. and, and I'm like, sometimes I am sad that I moved away and, and, and, you know, I'm not as close as I could be, you know, cause I'm kind of like, they all still hang out with each other sometimes. And I'm like, I'm the one that just moved away. But, I, just felt that they, you know, everything like and as I said, I ended up being an academic. Right. I mean, like, so I'm also glad I had the history professors that I had and the professors that I had, you know, too. So it wasn't just, you know, all social. Right. I mean, like, you know, think Dr. Thomas passed away recently and and Kate Jewell (43:41.067) Ed Thomas, Chris (43:42.624) Yeah, he was my advisor and he wrote me a letter of recommendation and one time they accidentally left it out at Cal State Los Angeles where I got my master's degree. They left my file out and then I saw his letter of recommendation. It was really nice and he mentioned the radio station. Actually, he actually mentioned the radio station in my letter of recommendation to grad school because he said that he could be a better student if he wasn't screwing around on the radio station all the time. And so, yeah, no, mean, like, and I, I, I, I, you know, I enjoy that. And like, you know, I think I, I, I'm glad I met the people that I met. I'm glad that I knew those people because I they shared these experiences in music with me. And I just said, I was just like a sponge. just like, just soaked it all in, you Kate Jewell (44:35.66) Yeah, I mean, you know, I get asked a lot right now when I whenever I do media or podcasts, you know, what's the future of college radio or what's different about college radio than it was in the past? And, you know, I'm sure you know, this is a professor to our students are so much more squeezed for their time. Everything in their college life has to have a payoff because, you know, it's a it's. Chris (44:59.926) Yeah, no, they're told that. Yeah, it's beat into their heads. Kate Jewell (45:02.358) Yeah, it's debt fueled. It's, you you got to, and so, you know, going down and playing records on the radio station, there's not that immediate kind of tangible payoff, but it's, it can't, it could be, right? There is so much potential still there for that experience. We just have to figure out a way to support Chris (45:23.571) You know, and I agree with you. And I think sometimes I think the students miss out the best parts of like, because years later, I mean, I, I'm a college professor. But when I think back about my undergrad years, I enjoy playing wiffle ball and what was called the new halls. I think they're called the Vinnie Mara village now. Right. They were just brand new then or playing football on the quad or screwing around with the radio station kids late at night in Thompson. We run around Thompson Hall in the tunnels. Kate Jewell (45:50.254) Mm -hmm. Chris (45:52.056) We used to joke about the tunnel monster, you know, and I, that's just as much part of your college experience as sitting in my class, listening to me talk about, you know, don't know, international relations, you know, and so the, want, I mean, and I said to go back to that idea of challenging yourself, listening to new music is that, you know, people use diversity as a dirty word, but it's wonderful. It's wonderful to be exposed to different kinds of things, you know, and the time, the ability, the freedom that you have. I think, you know, and Fitchburg is a lot like Pitt Johnstown, and I do tell the students that I'm more like you than you realized. And the other problem is a lot of students have to lot of our commuter students work. That has an impact too. And I think You know, the music industry changed too, and a lot of the way the music's delivered has changed. So, you know, for us, it was word of mouth, right? Because that stuff wasn't going to be on MTV or you were exposed to something similar to that on MTV and then had to do the research yourself, right? So like, go figure out what this is. and so I remember even going through CMJ and like, there were just some stations that I respected. Kate Jewell (47:09.529) Yeah. Kate Jewell (47:17.048) Thank Chris (47:29.902) and you know you're like okay like it doesn't mean i'm gonna like everything these people like but i'm gonna check it out you know i'm saying because if i if i know they're playing it maybe we should be doing it you know saying yeah Kate Jewell (47:37.294) Mm -hmm. Kate Jewell (47:42.624) Yeah, you keep tabs. Was there a sense of maybe through the music scenes that you were nearby or supporting of how WXPL compared to other nearby college stations? Or was that just like not on the radar, your own little sphere of influence? Chris (48:03.576) You know, I think we were, because, and I know I always come back to this, Mike and Mark had an extensive network and, you know, through them, they knew a lot of the other metal kids at the other radio stations throughout New England. And they were always like, cool. You know what saying? We just talk metal. You know I'm saying? Which is funny because like I don't want to pin, I don't want to stereotype myself as the metal person because that's, I listen to kind of all kinds of things. But they're always chill. But when it came to like, you know, it actually sometimes like, no, I don't remember like really contacting a lot of other people at other stations, you know, or even running into them, you know, even at shows. Kate Jewell (48:58.466) Mm -hmm. Chris (49:02.402) They were there. I'm sure they were there. Yeah, I'm saying. But like, you know, I remember, you know, going to like, you know, these things, you know, whether it's Jane's Addiction or like, you know, some bands playing at the Paradise or, know, or the, you know, the channel, which is long gone. But you sometimes really wouldn't run into though, like, and sometimes I would run into, as I said earlier, is the kind of the standoffish kind of like You know, like I don't want to sound like there's a class divide, but I went to a state college and I'm proud. so, you know, kids that, you know, I, one of my best friends went to Harvard, so I would go into Harvard and hang out with them. And that was a different scene. Harvard radio station was a different scene. Like you had to take a, I think at that point they were making students take a test of musical knowledge to like get on the air. Yeah. Kate Jewell (49:59.533) tracks. Chris (50:01.741) Hahaha! Kate Jewell (50:03.22) Don't get me started on the Harvard station and act like I'm their radio, their files. Chris (50:05.55) Yeah. And I remember in my friend was like, I said, you could probably pass it. I can't pass it. I'm saying like, and I'm like, yeah, you know, and as I said, like, I go back to my station and like, you know, at some point, like, you know, you're like, all right, well, we are who we are. We are who we are. You know what saying? And like, and at the same time, it doesn't stop. The station didn't stop any of us from out there exploring other kinds of music, you know. Kate Jewell (50:13.954) you Chris (50:35.272) And I think there are a lot of, I think the best thing about Fitchburg is that, and I think it's still true today. I think it's true at any school. There's a lot of talent. We had a lot of talented people, you know? And even if they're not in the music industry now, Chuck's still involved in the music industry. Chuck's still, yeah, he's out there. But Rich Hall did a punk rock show. Kate Jewell (50:47.842) Absolutely. Chris (51:04.77) Mark Fields, I think is still sometimes in some like brutal death metal band, you know what saying? Hard like Grindcore. I think it's Grindcore or something. I but like, it doesn't matter whether they're still in the music field, I think, but they all brought their unique perspectives to Fitchburg. Kate Jewell (51:24.726) Mm -hmm. That's what I, yeah. mean, I'm never, my students never cease to amaze me with the stuff that they bring, like the references that they have. Like, it's like you put them all into a room and you can remix at infinitum. You just, you know, they just have to be confident enough to put it out there, to share it. That's the challenge. Chris (51:47.278) And it's actually, and this is one of the philosophies I felt. In fact, I think this is relevant to your podcast. when I became the music director and I was a freshman, right? And that ruffled some feathers, right? And I got along, Brian Gill had been the station manager before me, right? And we all got along, you know? But I remember feeling handcuffed, right? I mean, the idea of like, well, this is the way it needs to be done, right? This is how we've always done things and this is how we need to always do things. I'm not saying that people were doing it maliciously, but it was kind of like, this is how it's done. And I wanted to change things. In fact, one of my most lifelong lessons was, no, I guess why it was done that way. But I I strongly believe that when I left college radio, that I was gone. I still love music. I you listen to other people's college radio stations, I still listen to music, right? I still want to be challenged and be around people with diversity. But I left WXPL and whoever is at WXPL now should be doing it their way. Right? And they don't need me to come tell them what was up. You know what saying? like, and that musical tastes change. And that musical tastes changed when I was there. You know I'm saying? Like, you know, like, when you think about what alternative radio was in like 1987, Love and Rockets would come to your head. And I love Love and Rockets actually. I like The House. Yeah, exactly. And then on the other side, you get the American indie kind of rock stuff, But I mean, like by the end, and just who saw that coming? mean, like the explosion of like, of that stuff. Kate Jewell (53:22.946) Mm -hmm. Kate Jewell (53:27.458) Very synthy, very like, you know, dark. Chris (53:46.126) I will tell you the story. I think I mentioned this before to you though. At some point I was station manager and we wanted to do a fundraiser and sell t -shirts. So one of our station members, forgetting his name now, but he designed a t -shirt, right? It's a WXPL 91 .3 and we contracted with some print shop or whatever screening place in Worcester. Chris (54:18.466) We were not allowed. We found this after we made the order to use our station funds for the t -shirt. Yeah, oops, that's right. And I will say, cause I think this guy's long gone. There was a guy in administration that I think he had issues with WXPL and he might've had issues with me. I don't know. He might've liked. Kate Jewell (54:42.03) Sorry. Chris (54:48.098) the other station manager more. But I mean, I don't, but he like, it just, there were issues and he's like, we're not giving you the money. You're not going to get the money. I'm like, dude, I already, like I was in his office. I'm like, I, I've actually already ordered this with like a company. I'm saying like, they're making the t -shirts right now. He's like, no, he wanted to teach us a lesson, right? So I had to drive down to Worcester and I was like, I got, I got some problems. And he gave me the shirts. And I said, look, we're going to get the money to you. And he was cool about it. mean, know, it was like a mom and pop store. was like, you know, like it was like, and we were not allowed to set up a booth to sell them. We weren't allowed to officially sell them. So we had to do this guerrilla campaign of like hit and run in the G lobby of like selling them. And then someone would be on the lookout and they thought he was coming. We'd all run. We'd grab the box and start running. and we sold them at cost, there was no fundraising. There was no extra money from it. We had to sell them at cost. And I made sure that guy got paid back. But I remember thinking, man, it's our money. It's for a fundraiser. I think it was in the budget. But no, he just wanted to teach us a lesson. Kate Jewell (56:08.94) You didn't kiss the ring. It's probably a little surprise, but you know what mean? Get your sign. Get your three bid minimum state. Something like that. Yeah. And the last one, speaking of Massachusetts situations, everybody's talking about the first meetings that would take place in the science lecture hall. And like, you Chris (56:11.864) There I know. So. Chris (56:21.462) I know. Kate Jewell (56:37.044) and initiations and all that stuff. My husband, he works in the construction field and he was the HVAC designer on the new science building. When they demoed the old science hall, they found out that it was just stacked cinder blocks, that whole back wall, no mortar. Chris (56:56.354) Hahaha lordy. Kate Jewell (56:59.534) That is just perfect like 1960s like Massachusetts the way business is done. Chris (57:07.072) yeah. Well, I mean, our college president, who I actually have fond memories of is Vinnie Mara. And my memory of Vinnie Mara was that he is the quintessential quintessential like Irish kind of politician guy. You know what saying? And I actually in this day and age, I miss that because there are some things that actually work that way. You know what saying? Kate Jewell (57:34.242) He knew how this would work, he could get stuff done. Chris (57:37.356) Yeah, but I mean, he was a very, mean, in some ways, well, they don't make college presidents like that anymore. And sometimes I'm always like, offense, President Specter, if you ever watch this. Kate Jewell (57:52.398) I shall say nothing. This will be how I my employer's institution. Chris (57:58.292) Yeah. It's funny, But there are our relationship is that didn't like, you it was it was was malign neglect, I guess. I mean, they didn't really care about us until we raised a problem. I know. I don't know. Or, you know, drinking in the station or things like that or some, you know, whatever. Kate Jewell (58:16.494) I know. Kate Jewell (58:27.31) So in your pantheon of college radio experiences, you have a top three to be very high fidelity about this, like top three moments? Chris (58:27.789) and they would care. Chris (58:40.027) of moments of being in college radio. Yeah. Kate Jewell (58:43.522) Yeah, yeah, for whatever reason. Chris (58:47.49) Yeah, think one of the things I just mentioned was that going to that show at CMJ conference and then being brought over to Greenwich Village to see Helmut and the cows was just something that was just like, just amazing, you know, which is directly related to college radio, right? I wouldn't be there if it wasn't for college radio. I think, you know, I... Chris (59:17.738) I, you know, maybe other people you talk to have other memories or whatever, but like, I just kind of miss the commodity, you know, being around everyone at that time and being young and we're not young anymore. it's, but it's like, I think the first time, and here's another one, the first time that we listened to Check Your Head, the Beastie Boys album, it came into the station, we opened up the box, it's there. And I think I was with John Hunt. I definitely know John Hunt was moving. And we ran into the production room, you know, the production room, and we put that on the turntable and we're like, it was Professor Booty. That was the first single off of it. And we're like, wow, this is amazing. think that sticks out. mean, kind of things like that. think really like, you know, sharing moments with people, like, you know, in hearing music for the first time, you know what saying? being around people with music, you And so that's, I guess that's my high fidelity moment. Listen to Professor Booty, right? By the Beastie Boys. Yeah. Kate Jewell (01:00:21.016) Yes. Kate Jewell (01:00:25.228) Yeah, that tape was stuck in my car's cassette player for my entire junior year in high school. Chris (01:00:33.538) Yeah, no, I like it, I think my junior, the end of my junior year, I think I drove around one summer with an NWA album on one side, the Beastie Boys on the flip side of the cassette, and then Pavement Slanted Enchanted on another cassette, and then Urge Overkill on the other side. And I think that's what I, you know, the Afghan wigs. Listen to the Afghan wigs. Yeah, congregation. It's the Afghan women's congregation. and slanted and chanted my pavement. that's, know, the summer I lived in Fitchburg was 1992. And I think that's, you there you go. Yeah. I mean, that's it. I mean, there's another big, think Afghan wigs and Urge Overkill are two of my favorite bands of all time. And I don't think a lot of other WXPLers really listen to them a lot, but I wouldn't have known them if I wasn't involved in the station. You know, I wouldn't have been Kate Jewell (01:01:12.674) Solid rotation. Kate Jewell (01:01:30.061) I'm happy. Chris (01:01:32.97) exposed to that, right there. So. So hopefully, I mean. You know. I'm trying to think of as any other like. No, we ran around on that. We ran around at night a lot. We didn't do any damage, so don't worry. Like we didn't we didn't break into anything and stealing and so. Yeah, exactly. Kate Jewell (01:01:54.654) No harm Kate Jewell (01:01:59.618) But yeah, the sentiment seemed pervasive. Well, at least, you know, so far and what I do. People seem to remember the station very, very Chris (01:02:11.532) Yeah, no, I really as it's weird for me because I'm gone. Like I left. I and I left at a time before the Internet. And so like I didn't really see a lot of them or was able to be in touch with them. But like I still hold them very near and dear to me. I'm saying like and I do, you know, like Peg Ricardo is, you know, a very good friend, you know, and and I don't see her very often at all. Like I'm saying, like it's here. Kate Jewell (01:02:19.352) Mm -hmm. Kate Jewell (01:02:39.97) Mm -hmm. Chris (01:02:41.122) long time, but yet she's my friend, you know what saying? And like, and I know that, right? And, you know, and so, I mean, the good thing about social media, right, is like, there's a lot of bad things about social media. The good thing about social media, I was able to get, you know, kind of be around them a lot. Chuck Ferro, it was in a band that had come out to Pittsburgh. I was able to see him and play in Pittsburgh. And that was nice. And, but yeah, no, I mean, we, In fact, actually, you know what? Did Zimmerer get ahold of you? Zimmerer Panitz? Well, that's our maiden name. And so she actually wrote a really, I don't know if she wrote about it or she might've, like, she was into like the more industrial and goth stuff. she at one point, I think had some crazy mohawk. Kate Jewell (01:03:10.998) No, not yet, Kate Jewell (01:03:30.542) you. Chris (01:03:35.818) that your hair was usually down, shaved on one side then down. But then every once in a she would put it up and it would freak out people at Fitchburg. But she had gone to see some industrial band in Boston. And yeah, mean, like she's got some stories, I think, know, of like, I think it's like the creepiness of people and you know what saying? And like, and it comes back to that of like, I never, you know, a woman's perspective at a show, okay, was something that I would naturally not think of on my own. But when she was telling me, you're like, like I need to like, you know, and yeah. So yeah. Kate Jewell (01:04:05.891) Mm Kate Jewell (01:04:17.282) Mm Kate Jewell (01:04:21.088) Yeah, getting the full breadth and the I mean, it was it they call it underground for a reason. Chris (01:04:28.386) Yeah. mean, and it's, I think it's, as I comes back to that, like, think the vert, like it's one thing I try to teach my students, like, you know, part of college, like we all got opinions about everything, right? But I mean, part of college is listening to other people's opinions. It's like listening to be around other people, right? And I think, you know, there are fond memories of Fitchburg though, is that there was a, yeah, I think people are, we did have fun together. know, we did, you know, and doesn't mean that everyone got along all the time. But, but, but for me, I, as I said, I only have the fondest memories. Kate Jewell (01:05:03.752) Sorry. Kate Jewell (01:05:09.644) Yeah. Yeah. And there's something about that, that even if you end up just stronger in your own convictions or, or, you know, a stronger sense of what it is that you like by being exposed to other ideas and other voices. And, you know, that in and of itself has value. You know, it's not like you have to go and change dramatically, like everything that you think you love and listen to. It's Chris (01:05:30.828) Yeah. Chris (01:05:35.534) hell yeah. Chris (01:05:40.236) I mean, it is like, and he was never really, really officially part of the station, but we had a student at Fitchburg and his name was David Marabello. And he was in bands, the Rationals. he lived in my suite my freshman year. And, you know, I was able to see his band play a couple of times when I was in Boston, luckily, was able to see, he was playing at the same time I was there. But I mean, Just talking to people about music and their experiences of how they approached albums to me was always fascinating. And maybe that's why I became an academic. I love hearing stories about how people hear albums and how they get excited about things. Sometimes it's contagious. Sometimes it rubs off on you. You can hear a band differently. knowing that someone else had picked something that you notice what they can pick out of it, right? And that's, I think that's cool, you Kate Jewell (01:06:46.39) Mm -hmm. Yeah, yeah, and just extrapolate from there to all the different kinds of things you're exposed to in college, and there you are. So what am I missing in the story of WXPL? Chris (01:06:51.074) Yeah. Yep. Chris (01:07:02.769) Well, as I said, I can only give you from 1989 and I was a freshman, you know, to 1993. you know, I can remember John Hunt in 1990 opening up a box. And I might not even been the music director at that moment, but it was Nirvana's Bleach. And we were listening to because he knew sub pop. Like I'm saying, and that was something that he knew. And in 1990, I was just getting around. I'm saying like I said, like it was, you know, it was like an explosion. You know what saying? It's just like getting to college is like just the universe keeps expanding. And so I think it's I think that to me, my takeaway is it was an amazing time to be in college radio. knowing full well and trust me, do understand that. Well, that world's dead now. It's funny. The world, music industry of that day and age is gone. It blew up. And yeah, it's not coming back. And some people dream about it, right? But for all the wrong reasons, you know what saying? They just wanna be schmoozers and go to cocktail parties paid for by the label and you know I'm saying? Kate Jewell (01:08:12.694) I'm a bag. Kate Jewell (01:08:28.396) Yeah, or be in control of culture, right? To be a gatekeeper. Chris (01:08:30.242) Yeah. Exactly. And I'm a firm believer. Like I tell my students this, there's a lot of modern music I think is stupid. That's okay. Like, no, it's fine. Like it's you do you. You know what saying? Like it is your music. It's for you. Right? And you do not need my approval at all. You know what saying? If I hear something I like, I like it. But if I don't like it, I'll just listen to something else. You know what saying? Kate Jewell (01:08:51.672) Mm -hmm. Kate Jewell (01:08:58.392) Yeah. Chris (01:08:59.384) You know, I don't have to like, yeah, like, and so the gatekeeper aspect is it's weird, right? Because on one hand, you want the station to be educational. And on the other hand, you really can't, right? mean, well, it is edu-, well, I mean, what's one person's mainstream is another person's educational. Kate Jewell (01:09:17.624) Yeah, that's true. Chris (01:09:21.186) You know, like some, you know, you can imagine they're like people that grew up in a certain world and they hear Nirvana for the first time and they're like, this is amazing. Like, I've been, I was there at beginning. saying like, that's not, that's not helpful. That's not helpful. That's not helpful. You know, not a helpful attitude, you know? Yeah. Kate Jewell (01:09:38.338) Yeah, yeah, be open. Okay, so any final thoughts before I stop recording for the record? Chris (01:09:48.078) Well, thank you for doing this and I hope you get good participation and I hope you get a sense from all of us, right? All our voices combined, what it was like because as I said, I have fond memories of it and I think you've run into that everyone else does, right? And it was, you know, it's part of being young. And so I think it'd be kind of fun to see that collected together. You know what saying? And there was a WXPL before me and there's a WXPL after me. What is the station doing now? What is WXPL now? Kate Jewell (01:10:32.92) COVID was rough. COVID was hard. So, you know, it was, there are still absolutely quintessential college DJs working there, running it out of love and passion. And they have shows in the commuter cafe and, you know, but it's small. And so I'm hoping to see some, you know, that innovative spirit really. Chris (01:10:35.426) Yeah. Chris (01:10:53.218) Yeah. Kate Jewell (01:10:58.57) shape this and hopefully you know we can connect it with the podcasting thing that I'm doing and you know figure out some ways to give students more opportunities to have those kinds Chris (01:11:10.835) It's no longer in where it is no longer in the basement of Thompson Hall anymore. Kate Jewell (01:11:13.696) No, it is on, it's in Hammond and it's not on the main level where the library is, but one floor down. And so if you walk out, there's like a little corridor that goes out the side. can't remember. It's not the, there's the street level and the ground level. I think it's the ground level, which is above the street level. have, it makes no sense to me. It's on the ground level and you can walk by and can look in and it's very nice studio. It's small. Chris (01:11:36.226) Yeah. Kate Jewell (01:11:41.25) They got a nice production room in there and yeah, I'm technically a member, so. Chris (01:11:46.05) ours was dude, ours was strung together and we would, we would have to get this engineer from WJUL. I think some kid had gone to Lowell and had transferred, I think it was Rob, or knew a bunch of kids at Lowell. And so the guy at JUL, this technician was Bill the engineer or something like that. we used to, Jokey was like, came in in the TARDIS. He was like kind of a classic older guy that was kind of like, I don't know, kind of out there. He would fix things for us, right? He would be the guy that to Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Kate Jewell (01:12:20.114) just coming up radio stations like in the central mass. There are these characters I've read across a number of them. There's some guy in Santa Barbara who is an up to Santa Cruz. He was known as like the barefoot, I'm gonna get it wrong, he's like the barefoot wonder or something and he was like known for like going around and like rigging up radio stations like in the late 70s. Chris (01:12:43.906) Yeah, no, I yeah, I didn't have time and I got to UC Santa Barbara. I thought about joining the college radio station. But I was like I gotta put academics first after. That's where I got my PhD was UC Santa Barbara, so Kate Jewell (01:12:54.789) That makes sense. station has some stories. Chris (01:13:01.398) Yeah, think it's actually like I might have like Sean Hannity might have been there at some point when I was there. Kate Jewell (01:13:05.794) Sean Hannity was there. Sean Hannity was fired from there, allowed to come back, but that was how he put out his shingle in Radio and Records as the nation's most controversial college DJ. Chris (01:13:20.82) I What a scam. Kate Jewell (01:13:25.439) Yeah, so much College Radio. thank you. Thank you so much for participating. I can click Chris (01:13:28.576) I know. Well, thank you for doing this, you know, and. Chris (01:13:35.318) And, you know, if you want to talk briefly after you turn it off, we can real quick too. Kate Jewell (01:13:38.734) Sure. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 1:13:40 Time Summary A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Background 02:21 Getting to Fitchburg State and Joining WXPL 07:06 The Structure and Programming of WXPL 10:24 The Role of a Music Director 14:22 Creating a Community of Music Lovers 17:22 The Place of WXPL on Campus 20:43 The Benefits of College Radio 23:04 Promoting Non-Mainstream Music 28:11 Balancing the Mission of College Radio 36:10 The Role of a Music Director 39:18 The Wonderful Experience of College Radio 45:00 The Future of College Radio and Time Management Challenges 53:18 The Changing Musical Landscape and Alternative Music Explosion 58:28 Top Three Moments at College Radio 01:06:40 The Importance of Exposure to Different Perspectives 01:09:53 Preserving the Voices and Memories of WXPL DJs Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History with Chris Cook Subject The topic of the resource WXPL-FM history, 1989-1993 Description An account of the resource Summary Chris Cook shares his experience as a student at Fitchburg State and his involvement with WXPL, the college radio station. He discusses how he got to Fitchburg State and how he became interested in radio. Chris talks about the structure and programming of WXPL, as well as his role as the music director. He emphasizes the importance of playing non-mainstream music and the challenges of balancing the station's mission with the popularity of certain bands. Chris also reflects on the benefits of college radio and the sense of community it creates. The conversation revolves around Chris's experiences at WXPL, the college radio station at Fitchburg State University. He reminisces about the diverse music played at the station and the sense of community among the DJs. Chris highlights the importance of college radio in exposing listeners to new music and fostering a love for diverse genres. He also discusses the challenges faced by college radio stations in the modern era and the changing landscape of the music industry. Overall, Chris has fond memories of his time at WXPL and the impact it had on his musical tastes and personal growth. Takeaways College radio stations provide a platform for students to explore and share non-mainstream music. Being a music director involves listening to new music, interacting with record labels, and making programming decisions. College radio stations create a sense of community among students with similar musical interests. There is a tension between the mission of college radio to promote non-mainstream music and the desire for career advancement in the music industry. College radio offers valuable experience and networking opportunities for students interested in broadcasting or the music industry. College radio stations like WXPL play a crucial role in exposing listeners to new and diverse music. The sense of community among DJs at college radio stations fosters a love for music and personal growth. The changing landscape of the music industry and the challenges faced by college radio stations have impacted the role and influence of these stations. College radio provides a platform for students to explore and share their musical interests and perspectives. challenges community diversity Fitchburg State University music director programming https://www.wrvuhistory.org/files/original/4d27444b37582e346c583c230bf81990.jpg 2ea649fee47f70b94b7b5d624ff410f8 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource WXPL-FM, Fitchburg State University Subject The topic of the resource WXLP-FM 91.3 at Fitchburg State University, Fitchburg, MA Description An account of the resource Collected artifacts and oral histories with alumni of the station. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Katherine Jewell Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource WXPL Day Hits High Note, clipping Description An account of the resource newspaper clipping Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Student Government Association, Student Newspaper. “The Strobe, Vol. XII No. 8,” April 30, 2013. https://jstor.org/stable/community.36477034. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource November 11, 1987 https://www.wrvuhistory.org/files/original/0aaf28b384348d2e46340563c4da7268.jpg fb6afd6f26601845fcfb0f8b40974bff https://www.wrvuhistory.org/files/original/b983981d1cc6be1e3d1b756941630ba2.jpg cd98af67e4df705d1efc7b1b991b5896 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource WXPL-FM, Fitchburg State University Subject The topic of the resource WXLP-FM 91.3 at Fitchburg State University, Fitchburg, MA Description An account of the resource Collected artifacts and oral histories with alumni of the station. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Katherine Jewell Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource "WXPL to draw listeners" clipping Subject The topic of the resource WXPL format change announced Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Student Government Association, Student Newspaper. “The Strobe, No. 4,” May 1, 2013. https://jstor.org/stable/community.36477173. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource February 21, 1996 https://www.wrvuhistory.org/files/original/eec6ff153c3fc9878d8027ed4967b0c4.jpg d94074292d8efb45c8dd425b09437611 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource WXPL-FM, Fitchburg State University Subject The topic of the resource WXLP-FM 91.3 at Fitchburg State University, Fitchburg, MA Description An account of the resource Collected artifacts and oral histories with alumni of the station. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Katherine Jewell Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data newspaper article Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource "WXPL is an alternative station" newspaper clipping Subject The topic of the resource WXPL as alternative, contains photo of DJs Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Student Government Association, Student Newspaper. “The Strobe, Vol. XVI No. 5,” April 30, 2013. https://jstor.org/stable/community.36477067. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource November 1, 1989 https://www.wrvuhistory.org/files/original/ad16491a4475d3bfc6e1ecddbdb24fb1.jpg a7551ba78ac0872bf70ba39fae44c6ef Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource WXPL-FM, Fitchburg State University Subject The topic of the resource WXLP-FM 91.3 at Fitchburg State University, Fitchburg, MA Description An account of the resource Collected artifacts and oral histories with alumni of the station. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Katherine Jewell Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data newspaper article Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource "WXPL: Stepping into the Nineties" newspaper clipping Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Student Government Association, Student Newspaper. “The Strobe, Vol. XVI No. 1,” April 30, 2013. https://jstor.org/stable/community.36477206. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available The Strobe Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource February 14, 1990 https://www.wrvuhistory.org/files/original/09128b967155c1b7038d63f92529452e.jpg 1da5b67db4adf69496e7f29f0c23f20e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource WXPL-FM, Fitchburg State University Subject The topic of the resource WXLP-FM 91.3 at Fitchburg State University, Fitchburg, MA Description An account of the resource Collected artifacts and oral histories with alumni of the station. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Katherine Jewell Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data newspaper article Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource "WXPL: the wrap up" newspaper clipping Subject The topic of the resource end of spring semester 1990 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Student Government Association, Student Newspaper. “The Strobe, Vol. XVII No. 9,” April 30, 2013. https://jstor.org/stable/community.36477076. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 25, 1990 https://www.wrvuhistory.org/files/original/1ab92a284d8b5be2a683d660564d2bf5.jpeg f438a4b32b3b14775fe6cd5bd7be9345 https://www.wrvuhistory.org/files/original/e673af6845ca809df3f04c95767a9200.jpeg bf8785ad9c2f1e701eeb0273b9d99ddb https://www.wrvuhistory.org/files/original/fc38a8ff0a13f98c9736f36c3b86056b.jpeg 9ccfd9be8026429992c3817f8828bd46 https://www.wrvuhistory.org/files/original/ef8437ca528ee1ee239985c941106baf.jpeg eca390bb294c27ef7e38f1f050a53247 https://www.wrvuhistory.org/files/original/204e81ec81195638e607663c0e78c1b7.jpeg 5ed6a1c15ecdce65481033f1886441db https://www.wrvuhistory.org/files/original/68b9cdb123277643392b95d0e6e14771.jpeg ec0a8fa6f35d324155729232b97cbbd4 https://www.wrvuhistory.org/files/original/735e200ea37f6a4733f9df1591d7aa30.jpeg 905636dead4851785b2a18e749001df5 https://www.wrvuhistory.org/files/original/909327e4fdb4c4a88a2026adc8ead9e8.jpeg 1e5fd6c018adf489a47120ffe3c6f236 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource WXPL-FM, Fitchburg State University Subject The topic of the resource WXLP-FM 91.3 at Fitchburg State University, Fitchburg, MA Description An account of the resource Collected artifacts and oral histories with alumni of the station. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Katherine Jewell Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource XPLosion Program Guide 1988 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available WXPL-FM Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1988 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Mike Baronas